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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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show number 50 50 50 mm for the second

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of oktober 2009 Richard Saunders here

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with you once again from Sydney

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Australia quite an interesting episode

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we have for you this week we have our

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reports from Kylie Sturgis mounted

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dragoncon and reports and interviews

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with dr. Reggie as part of her tour of

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the USA including New York and Boston

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such names as Heidi Anderson Barbara

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Draya rebecca watson tim fally mario

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shot lander and many more coming up on

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today's show a few other announcements

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if you go to our website at WWE TV you

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can bid on an autographed photograph of

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myself Derek Collin do know from skeptic

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allottee Brian Dunning from skip toy

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calm and dr. Steve novella a signed

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picture of the four of us hamming it up

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at tam seven up for bid on ebay right

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now check it out don't forget to follow

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the skeptic zone on twitter at skeptic

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zone and also if you want to you can now

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subscribe to the skeptic zone for only

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99 cents an episode now that's 99 cents

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australian or american head to our

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website wwc optics on TV scroll down

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look down the left-hand side for details

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but enough about that let's get straight

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I'm Carly Sturgis and this year at

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dragoncon new groups were taking to the

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stage and networking amongst the crowds

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at both the skeptic and science tracks

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with representatives and blogs like

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science-based parenting rational moms

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the newly launched grassroots skeptic

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site and teacher ninjas calm there was a

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definite sense of community based

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stakeholders reaching out and speaking

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out to other more established skeptical

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groups since the skeptic zone podcasts

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in 2009 brought the mystery

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investigators show and proposed panels

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on education matters it was wonderful to

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catch up with a few of these people

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during the convention we have a lot in

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common with them firstly I spoke to

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Barbra Drescher she is a cognitive

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psychologists and lecturer a california

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state university northridge who conducts

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research in several areas and primarily

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teaches a quantitative research this

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year at DragonCon she presented on half

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a dozen panels for both the skeptic and

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science tracks these included sceptical

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psychology and in the classroom and

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Darwin's Bulldogs teachers on the front

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line along with fellow critical thinking

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education group member matt lowry she

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even added her insights and experience

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to panels on synesthesia luck

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coincidence and delusions and even the

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highly debated final episode of

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what is ctek critical thinking education

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group and we even have a website at

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critical teaching org which I've got on

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the laptop right next to me I've been

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working very hard all this morning

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making sure my slides are ready for the

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three panels I've got today and one of

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the panels were doing is the post up in

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the morning ten o'clock hope people be

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there well I hope we're going to talk

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about critical teaching in the classroom

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or critical thinking teaching and

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psychology around you know that

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surrounds the topic and how people learn

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how to critically think and this happens

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to be a speciality of yours that it's

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correct I also like to think of myself

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as a as a teacher of my own kids yeah in

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fact we expand that to be a theme

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throughout quite a lot of this

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conference I've interviewed a few other

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parents who a year we've seen a few

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other panels do you think that there's a

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growing trend towards parents wanting to

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have a bit more of a saying skepticism

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and some of the conference's as well as

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the teachers like ourselves I would hope

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so i mean i think that critical thinking

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and skepticism science it's it's not a

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we don't have a market on it just

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because we're in academics it really is

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for everybody and and the the whole aim

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of the skeptic movement is to make it i

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guess to make people more aware that it

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should be a way of life and that it

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would help them make better decisions

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overall and parents are our key here

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because if parents brought their

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children up with these skills or with at

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least thinking that they're important

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through that they will go and educate

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themselves and learn the skills then we

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wouldn't have a job we wouldn't need to

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be here as i educated yourself and as a

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parent what

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some of the things that you've

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experienced which have led you to take

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the opportunity to become a member CT I

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guess what I've experienced is a gap a

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big gap there are certainly those people

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that don't want to change the way that

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they do things and they don't want to

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change the way that they think they want

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to continue to believe that if they use

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magnets they can cure their arthritis

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but there are those those people who

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simply have never been exposed to logic

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and reasoning and even if they have they

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didn't realize it was important because

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they didn't understand that humans don't

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behave that way normally and that's

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usually that's usually my first goal in

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a classroom is just shake people up and

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to say look you need this because you

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are biased because you don't see the

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world the way it actually is so you need

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this this skill or this this method to

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kind of get you to to look at it

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objectively and to put aside your your

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biases we both know there's going to be

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a pseudo science in education to reason

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there oh there is a ton in fact after

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one of the panels I can't remember which

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one but it must have had something to do

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with teaching because it was certainly

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teaching related one woman came up to me

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and asked me about oh I know it was I

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think it was synesthesia ah which is

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that's a strange panel for that to pop

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up in that I was talking I think I made

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a comment about how we learn someone was

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someone had asked the question well can

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they use this to learn better because

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the idea with synesthesia is you've got

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to sensory modalities that are crossed

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and in a way some cinna seats actually

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have an advantage because it helps them

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to remember things mean it

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some letters or green or some words or

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green and some are blue then you can

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remember a pattern of colors in addition

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to the words themselves that's dual

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coding theory but someone thought that

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well that should if we could learn how

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to be as in estates which of course not

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possible we could improve learning and

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that really isn't true I mean it just

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isn't because there's so much that goes

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into how we take things in that we think

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that we just we put up an animation and

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we put up the words and then we read it

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to them and so we've covered all the

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sensory modalities is going to be better

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and that's just not the case because now

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what we've asked him to do is to buy

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their attention across all these

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modalities so I had a so much in the

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audience eight you know I teach I think

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it was third grade was elementary school

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and these people want to implement these

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policies things like manipulatives for

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math

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and I know which I know it's not

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supported what can I do you know tell me

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where the literature is so that I can at

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least go to these people and say okay

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look it's not going to work he's going

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to harm me it's more than help them and

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it's tough because these these teaching

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techniques things like my kids school

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Bothell and the wind zuly learning

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system oh we have a great teacher in

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Queensland a librarian who talked about

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brain gym infiltrating her school as

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well she's been interview for the

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skeptics out to it yeah and these things

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sound great you know they give you lots

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of reasons they should work and they

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make sense and it's the same tactics

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that you'll hear alternative medicine

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you know oh well you know you're missing

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this this vitamins so just take it in

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and things like well if you're lethargic

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just taking an iron supplements going to

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fix it because it's really all about

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iron it doesn't quite make sense i mean

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there's there's huge gaps in the

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knowledge that people don't understand

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things like how I metabolize items and

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minerals and you have supplements and

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things like that and then how do we

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learn how do we how do we get effective

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learning into classroom what could be

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some of the answers that you think well

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I i think more research i think that we

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have to identify the problems first

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things like dyslexia are not necessarily

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just reversing letters and this actually

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came up in that same panel so if we

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develop ways to deal with that symptom

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we're not really

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to help that person because it's not

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really the problem so I think that

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identifying the problems and not making

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problems up either I think that reaching

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you know more people in general is is

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the key here we have to keep in mind

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that school boards in the united states

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are usually voted you know that the

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members are voted in they're not always

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people that know anything about

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education actually there's there's

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another issue I I was talking to

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somebody one of the other attendees

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about the fact that a lot of education

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programs are a lot like HSA this they're

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a little like some of the nursing

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programs that are it's changing

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certainly it's getting better but they

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don't necessarily teach the science of

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learning they teach the it's kind of

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like trying to get a psychology degree

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by only learning Floyd oh yeah you know

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the things that have been tested don't

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really pan out but then there's also the

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fact that a lot of these things are

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untested they're just kind of the kind

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of port this flowery idealistic what can

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we do to meet our goals that isn't just

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made up so getting in touch assigned

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outreach programs networking in order to

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inform people who might have these

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questions as we've discovered we have a

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newsletter I've noticed that like I've

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got a back to got it here on the page

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here it's the inaugural critical

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measures news later from CT I hoping to

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get more and more articles on that and

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again being aware that it's not just one

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person's problem it's a variety of

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stakeholders as well and that includes

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the parents you've mentioned briefly

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their parents getting on to school

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boards for example teachers could do

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that too in fact anyone who's concerned

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they could and even even parents who are

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not necessarily able to participate

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actively in what's going on in their

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schools they can still give them what I

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mean there there's there's PTA there's

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also just sitting down with the teacher

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and talking the teacher about what that

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teacher is doing because many times

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teachers have they latch onto these

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ideals well and

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really think that what they're doing is

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helping children when it's not and if

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those parents are armed with knowledge

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they can take it to the teacher they can

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00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:19,390
take it to the school district and say

275
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:21,760
you know maybe we should re you should

276
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:25,120
rethink this area and so we can all take

277
00:11:28,260 --> 00:11:27,010
steps and I think we're getting a

278
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:28,270
message that we shouldn't be afraid

279
00:11:33,329 --> 00:11:30,880
anymore to speak out and be a part of

280
00:11:35,220 --> 00:11:33,339
community that is border beyond just

281
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,230
their own internet world or our own

282
00:11:41,220 --> 00:11:37,120
backyard that there's others who share

283
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:41,230
the same problems I like that yeah thank

284
00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:44,890
you very much about Patricia you can

285
00:11:49,740 --> 00:11:47,529
read Barbara's blog at a site I CBS

286
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:49,750
everywhere calm and please check out

287
00:11:53,850 --> 00:11:51,730
critical teaching dorg to network with

288
00:11:56,100 --> 00:11:53,860
other skeptical teachers and subscribe

289
00:11:58,079 --> 00:11:56,110
to the newsletter skeptic kids is a

290
00:12:00,300 --> 00:11:58,089
hands-on science program and the

291
00:12:02,250 --> 00:12:00,310
energetic Jason balata of skeptic it's

292
00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:02,260
org caught up with me during a break

293
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:05,529
between dragoncon panels okay so yeah my

294
00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:07,600
name is Jason balata I'm with skeptic

295
00:12:14,660 --> 00:12:10,870
kids org we are a kid's group that

296
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:14,670
focuses on hands-on science for kids we

297
00:12:19,140 --> 00:12:17,290
have the mindset that if you want kids

298
00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:19,150
to stay interested in science in the

299
00:12:23,730 --> 00:12:21,910
skeptical inquiry and scientific inquiry

300
00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:23,740
you got to get their hands dirty or

301
00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:24,640
they're just not going to be interested

302
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:27,400
in it so we gear everything that we do

303
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,250
towards that end so our motto is science

304
00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:32,560
is a verb and it's something that you do

305
00:12:36,750 --> 00:12:34,630
and it's not boring and it can be a lot

306
00:12:39,630 --> 00:12:36,760
of fun so that's the short version and

307
00:12:41,730 --> 00:12:39,640
drag cons a blast I came here to be

308
00:12:43,710 --> 00:12:41,740
beautiful with all these skeptics and

309
00:12:46,530 --> 00:12:43,720
there's been some wonderful science

310
00:12:49,079 --> 00:12:46,540
panels and just more than I can take in

311
00:12:50,910 --> 00:12:49,089
to be honest the last time I saw you

312
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:50,920
coming out of a panel it was for the

313
00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:53,410
space and kids panel oh yeah nice try

314
00:12:58,199 --> 00:12:55,420
yeah it was called stars in their eyes

315
00:12:59,490 --> 00:12:58,209
keeping kids interested in space and it

316
00:13:01,079 --> 00:12:59,500
was one of those films that I kind of

317
00:13:02,610 --> 00:13:01,089
missed when I was first figuring out my

318
00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:02,620
schedule but I'm really glad I went into

319
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:05,830
they had representatives from some of

320
00:13:09,810 --> 00:13:08,170
the space centers in Alabama and in at

321
00:13:12,630 --> 00:13:09,820
the Kennedy Center and they had a

322
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:12,640
representative from JPL there Jet

323
00:13:16,380 --> 00:13:14,320
Propulsion laboratories and they're just

324
00:13:19,890 --> 00:13:16,390
going over all the resources that are

325
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:19,900
available for parents and teachers in

326
00:13:22,570 --> 00:13:20,810
schools to

327
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:22,580
involved in and then one of the things

328
00:13:27,340 --> 00:13:25,370
that kept coming up was that's all great

329
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:27,350
but how do we integrate this into the

330
00:13:33,030 --> 00:13:30,290
schools and my response to that is the

331
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:33,040
public education system has so many

332
00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:36,290
standardized and stringent requirements

333
00:13:40,060 --> 00:13:38,150
on their time that some of these things

334
00:13:42,190 --> 00:13:40,070
unfortunately right now the best thing

335
00:13:44,860 --> 00:13:42,200
we can do as parents is pick up that

336
00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:44,870
slack be that filler key promoting

337
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:46,670
science as something that doesn't have

338
00:13:50,290 --> 00:13:48,320
to be boring and overwhelming but can

339
00:13:52,510 --> 00:13:50,300
actually be quite fun so how does

340
00:13:54,970 --> 00:13:52,520
skeptic kids and what you're doing tap

341
00:13:58,990 --> 00:13:54,980
into that okay well we have a real

342
00:14:02,350 --> 00:13:59,000
simple outline we only require three

343
00:14:04,090 --> 00:14:02,360
things out of our kids one is they have

344
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:04,100
to contribute to real science and we

345
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:05,930
mostly do that through astronomy there's

346
00:14:10,420 --> 00:14:08,210
the American Association of variable

347
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:10,430
star astronomers where a lot of the guys

348
00:14:15,010 --> 00:14:12,320
that run the big telescopes around the

349
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:15,020
world look to what the the aavso has

350
00:14:18,490 --> 00:14:16,970
done and their observations to figure

351
00:14:20,079 --> 00:14:18,500
out where to put that telescope time so

352
00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:20,089
it's valuable science than anybody can

353
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:21,920
do even with a pair of binoculars it's

354
00:14:26,980 --> 00:14:24,560
got a really low cost point of entry

355
00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:26,990
right so one adult and 15 kids can make

356
00:14:31,870 --> 00:14:29,000
an impact there's a lot of environmental

357
00:14:33,490 --> 00:14:31,880
science you can do for example in in in

358
00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:33,500
my neck of the woods in Southwest

359
00:14:36,820 --> 00:14:34,910
Florida we've been suffering from a

360
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,830
drought for several years now a lot of

361
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,480
people don't associate Florida with

362
00:14:42,070 --> 00:14:40,160
droughts well one of the consequences

363
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:42,080
we're getting a lot of salt water coming

364
00:14:46,930 --> 00:14:44,930
up into the rivers and so there's no

365
00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:46,940
reason why children can't get out in the

366
00:14:51,820 --> 00:14:49,790
swamps and in the estuaries and and

367
00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:51,830
measure salt content in the water and

368
00:14:56,340 --> 00:14:53,780
observe wildlife that shouldn't normally

369
00:14:59,050 --> 00:14:56,350
be there and help record that

370
00:15:00,820 --> 00:14:59,060
information so that the the real

371
00:15:03,070 --> 00:15:00,830
scientists can use it so there's a lot

372
00:15:04,780 --> 00:15:03,080
of data collection that you can get a

373
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:04,790
little dirty and have some fun doing so

374
00:15:09,340 --> 00:15:07,310
that's the primary thing that we do the

375
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:09,350
the second requirement that we have on

376
00:15:14,590 --> 00:15:10,730
our kids is that they throw an awesome

377
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:14,600
party once a years okay so we we Yuri's

378
00:15:19,630 --> 00:15:16,850
Night party to celebrate yuri gagarin

379
00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:19,640
and his monumental achievement of being

380
00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:21,230
the first man in space and that's just a

381
00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:23,150
good time this last year I was I was

382
00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:24,529
just telling somebody about it this last

383
00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:26,510
year on a shoestring budget my wife and

384
00:15:32,519 --> 00:15:29,750
I built a 30-foot tall rocket in our

385
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:32,529
backyard out of PVC pipe and

386
00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:35,410
and bed sheets and spray paint and a

387
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:38,230
little artistic flair and you know and

388
00:15:43,139 --> 00:15:41,050
suddenly we had this huge rocket and we

389
00:15:45,329 --> 00:15:43,149
had you know about 50 kids show up and

390
00:15:47,819 --> 00:15:45,339
we had music and karaoke and just all

391
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:47,829
kinds of good stuff and you know they

392
00:15:53,369 --> 00:15:50,410
all had a great time and so what if only

393
00:15:55,650 --> 00:15:53,379
five minutes was spent on explaining to

394
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:55,660
them that right now around the world

395
00:15:59,970 --> 00:15:57,759
this party's going on and they're a part

396
00:16:02,519 --> 00:15:59,980
of it and that you know so many years

397
00:16:04,499 --> 00:16:02,529
ago I think it's 48 years ago the first

398
00:16:06,329 --> 00:16:04,509
man wins pastes so that's the way you

399
00:16:09,629 --> 00:16:06,339
got to do it right and then and this

400
00:16:10,769 --> 00:16:09,639
year are our third our third requirement

401
00:16:12,989 --> 00:16:10,779
that we're going to put on the program

402
00:16:14,910 --> 00:16:12,999
is gonna I think really be a lot of fun

403
00:16:16,829 --> 00:16:14,920
it's an outreach through the internet

404
00:16:18,269 --> 00:16:16,839
calling it channel skep the kids you

405
00:16:21,059 --> 00:16:18,279
guys did an interview with Adam Savage

406
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:21,069
recently yes where he had said you know

407
00:16:25,860 --> 00:16:23,110
we're not a demonstration show we don't

408
00:16:27,449 --> 00:16:25,870
demonstrate science we investigate myths

409
00:16:29,429 --> 00:16:27,459
well we're going to do exactly that

410
00:16:31,650 --> 00:16:29,439
we're going to demonstrate science but I

411
00:16:34,439 --> 00:16:31,660
happen to believe that kids are pretty

412
00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:34,449
self-centered and narcissistic so we are

413
00:16:39,150 --> 00:16:36,550
going to have it starred bike children

414
00:16:42,119 --> 00:16:39,160
and we are going to demonstrate basic

415
00:16:43,679 --> 00:16:42,129
scientific principles at grade level and

416
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:43,689
keep them in three to five minute clips

417
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:45,759
and make it available on teacher tube so

418
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:47,920
that those schools that have internet

419
00:16:52,049 --> 00:16:49,839
access and more and more of them do can

420
00:16:54,509 --> 00:16:52,059
access and use it in their classrooms so

421
00:16:56,429 --> 00:16:54,519
for example our first episode that we're

422
00:17:00,030 --> 00:16:56,439
working on right now we're going to use

423
00:17:03,449 --> 00:17:00,040
a jack russell terrier and have her lift

424
00:17:05,309 --> 00:17:03,459
a 50-pound girl up a tree through

425
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:05,319
mechanical advantage by building a block

426
00:17:09,569 --> 00:17:07,689
and pulley right how easy is that right

427
00:17:11,639 --> 00:17:09,579
if we have enough time i'm going to use

428
00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:11,649
a similar concept called a trucker's

429
00:17:16,110 --> 00:17:13,030
hitch and i'm going to pull a minivan up

430
00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:16,120
a hill no okay just basic science but

431
00:17:19,649 --> 00:17:18,370
you demonstrated some how cool and you

432
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:19,659
know if the kids think they're going to

433
00:17:23,399 --> 00:17:21,039
be on the internet they're going to want

434
00:17:25,919 --> 00:17:23,409
to be involved so but then they get to

435
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:25,929
actually add value they're providing a

436
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:27,520
service to teachers and the whole point

437
00:17:33,659 --> 00:17:30,610
of this is do science celebrate science

438
00:17:35,159 --> 00:17:33,669
be involved in it and you know kids get

439
00:17:36,810 --> 00:17:35,169
involved in other things they get

440
00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:36,820
interested in each other and social

441
00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:38,500
stuff and puberty comes and things

442
00:17:43,020 --> 00:17:40,809
change but if at the end of the day they

443
00:17:44,490 --> 00:17:43,030
somehow remember that hey this doesn't

444
00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:44,500
sound right because I know when you're

445
00:17:46,659 --> 00:17:44,809
trying

446
00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:46,669
sort out how something works you should

447
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:49,070
be you know you should be checking these

448
00:17:53,019 --> 00:17:50,450
other things I think that's going to

449
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:53,029
help build critical thinkers you can go

450
00:17:57,940 --> 00:17:55,610
to skip the kids org in fact we are

451
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:57,950
looking to somewhat franchise this out

452
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:00,559
if anybody is interested and would like

453
00:18:05,499 --> 00:18:03,049
to start their own chapters get the kids

454
00:18:07,749 --> 00:18:05,509
we're willing to give up some web space

455
00:18:10,389 --> 00:18:07,759
to set them up with their own so they

456
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:10,399
can set their own local chapter and to

457
00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:11,929
guide them on how we got involved with

458
00:18:15,549 --> 00:18:13,580
the schools and with parents and

459
00:18:17,230 --> 00:18:15,559
organized and make sure they've got the

460
00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:17,240
resources they need and I guess the

461
00:18:21,399 --> 00:18:18,860
point i would really drive home is it's

462
00:18:23,769 --> 00:18:21,409
a it's not hard be it doesn't have to

463
00:18:26,859 --> 00:18:23,779
cost much and see it's really worth

464
00:18:28,690 --> 00:18:26,869
doing finally there are many parents

465
00:18:31,299 --> 00:18:28,700
attending both with and without children

466
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:31,309
one example of such a parent was Heidi

467
00:18:34,869 --> 00:18:33,440
Anderson who coordinated the parents get

468
00:18:36,879 --> 00:18:34,879
together on the Monday night of the

469
00:18:38,649 --> 00:18:36,889
Convention and was responsible for the

470
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:38,659
thank-you party for skeptic ality

471
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:40,730
podcasts and skeptic track coordinators

472
00:18:45,850 --> 00:18:43,970
Derek and spooky ID presented a panel

473
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:45,860
called the skeptics guide to parenting

474
00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:48,320
which he previously presented for the

475
00:18:56,919 --> 00:18:53,950
Atlantis skeptics skeptic am Heidi is a

476
00:19:00,279 --> 00:18:56,929
atheist feminist wife and mother of two

477
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:00,289
I am sitting here opposite a very very

478
00:19:03,399 --> 00:19:01,730
keen thinking woman and a very

479
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:03,409
forward-thinking woman who is not afraid

480
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,170
to speak her mind

481
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:07,120
yes what are some of the things that you

482
00:19:12,450 --> 00:19:10,570
are not afraid to say I'm not afraid to

483
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:12,460
say that I'm an atheist in a small

484
00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:15,250
southern town in the United States I am

485
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:16,990
not afraid to say that I am raising my

486
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:19,120
children without religion but also

487
00:19:22,110 --> 00:19:20,770
showing my children that there are

488
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:22,120
people that they love and their family

489
00:19:26,130 --> 00:19:24,610
that are religious and that they have to

490
00:19:27,330 --> 00:19:26,140
respect the person they may not agree

491
00:19:29,340 --> 00:19:27,340
with them but they do have to respect

492
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:29,350
the person and for the time being they

493
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:30,490
don't need to discuss it with other

494
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:33,010
children I I want my children to be

495
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:36,130
outspoken when they can handle it and at

496
00:19:40,020 --> 00:19:37,450
this point when it will affect their

497
00:19:42,510 --> 00:19:40,030
social situation and they're not ready

498
00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:42,520
to handle the backlash I think it's too

499
00:19:45,930 --> 00:19:43,990
much for them right now and that they

500
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:45,940
need to understand and I'm guilty of

501
00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:49,690
this and I try and remember it that just

502
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:51,400
because somebody is religious doesn't

503
00:19:56,490 --> 00:19:53,650
mean they're stupid that we assume that

504
00:19:58,590 --> 00:19:56,500
our skepticism takes us to a place where

505
00:19:59,970 --> 00:19:58,600
of course atheism is natural for me I

506
00:20:01,800 --> 00:19:59,980
actually came about it the other way I

507
00:20:04,140 --> 00:20:01,810
was an atheist first didn't even know

508
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:04,150
there was anything called a skeptic and

509
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:05,950
then got involved and found out that

510
00:20:10,530 --> 00:20:07,570
there was and was like okay well that's

511
00:20:12,330 --> 00:20:10,540
that's me that's more me than an atheist

512
00:20:14,550 --> 00:20:12,340
but I definitely am a very strong and

513
00:20:16,050 --> 00:20:14,560
ardent atheist as well but I kind of

514
00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:16,060
have to be in the town that I live in

515
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:18,310
because if you don't come out and say

516
00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:20,320
that you are everyone assumes that you

517
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:22,600
are Christian I work with domestic

518
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:24,970
violence victims and rape crisis victims

519
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:27,130
I work I've worked in the field for 15

520
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:29,290
years now and ever since I got out of

521
00:20:32,790 --> 00:20:31,210
college basically because I've always

522
00:20:34,260 --> 00:20:32,800
been a feminist even as a little girl I

523
00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:34,270
told my mother I wanted to be a

524
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:36,070
ballerina and a truck driver when I was

525
00:20:41,130 --> 00:20:38,080
five years old for me it was just a

526
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:41,140
natural extension of what I was raised

527
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:43,330
with that I would then fight for a

528
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:46,480
woman's right that her body is hers and

529
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:49,120
it is not to be hurt or assaulted by

530
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:51,010
anyone and I say it's a woman's issue

531
00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:53,410
but just because the statistics do show

532
00:20:57,660 --> 00:20:55,030
that it is more likely to be a woman

533
00:20:59,280 --> 00:20:57,670
that is battered or raped but we

534
00:21:01,440 --> 00:20:59,290
certainly do have male victims it's

535
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:01,450
something that for me I started out

536
00:21:04,830 --> 00:21:03,370
working directly with victims and then

537
00:21:06,510 --> 00:21:04,840
for the past five years I've been more

538
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:06,520
in the administration and the

539
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:08,950
fundraising grant writing piece so how

540
00:21:12,910 --> 00:21:10,690
does skepticism in particular the

541
00:21:14,970 --> 00:21:12,920
questioning pseudoscience and pound

542
00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:14,980
or beliefs which are damaging or harmful

543
00:21:19,570 --> 00:21:17,360
predominant in society how does that

544
00:21:21,910 --> 00:21:19,580
interact with what you see is a feminist

545
00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:21,920
viewpoint well in my job especially I

546
00:21:26,490 --> 00:21:24,260
see the impact that religion has and the

547
00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:26,500
fact that in the south there are still

548
00:21:30,370 --> 00:21:28,430
religions that even though the

549
00:21:31,810 --> 00:21:30,380
mainstream religions may say that men

550
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:31,820
and women are equal and that you can't

551
00:21:35,710 --> 00:21:33,770
beat your wife that there are plenty of

552
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:35,720
creatures and reverends who are still

553
00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:38,810
basically behind the scenes saying that

554
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:41,150
it is ok that if you just pray hard

555
00:21:44,830 --> 00:21:42,890
enough and you're a good enough life and

556
00:21:46,990 --> 00:21:44,840
you come to Christian counseling but

557
00:21:50,260 --> 00:21:47,000
everything will be okay and that would

558
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:50,270
be the biggest piece that I see I duties

559
00:21:54,970 --> 00:21:52,610
a lot of the therapists that I work with

560
00:21:59,050 --> 00:21:54,980
because a lot of them are very woo

561
00:22:01,120 --> 00:21:59,060
oriented with crystals and tapping like

562
00:22:02,860 --> 00:22:01,130
there's ever heard of tapping noise it

563
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:02,870
nice on you ages but don't mean it's a

564
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,510
new age type of therapy where while you

565
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:07,520
are doing psychotherapy they do a

566
00:22:11,740 --> 00:22:09,710
rhythmic tapping on you that's supposed

567
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:11,750
to stimulate a piece of your brain to

568
00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:13,370
help you heal from the trauma that

569
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:16,340
you're discussing and I have a friend

570
00:22:20,830 --> 00:22:18,710
who I love in a door of no no for 15

571
00:22:23,740 --> 00:22:20,840
years and she does it and I think it's

572
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:23,750
crap and that probably doesn't work but

573
00:22:28,990 --> 00:22:26,450
maybe it works in a placebo way for her

574
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:29,000
and the client but I would I would never

575
00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:32,240
I would never go to her and and approach

576
00:22:36,420 --> 00:22:34,430
her with that she knows how I feel show

577
00:22:38,740 --> 00:22:36,430
me she knows that everybody everybody i

578
00:22:41,290 --> 00:22:38,750
know for more than five minutes knows

579
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:41,300
where I stand on the majority of things

580
00:22:45,850 --> 00:22:43,730
in the world so she knows that I think

581
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:45,860
it's silly but I'm also not going to

582
00:22:48,940 --> 00:22:47,330
attack her that's what she does you know

583
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:48,950
because it's not taking the place of

584
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:51,110
psychotherapy it's in addition to the

585
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:53,210
psychotherapy well you have to find

586
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:55,970
people that you can go and talk with you

587
00:23:02,590 --> 00:22:57,410
have to find people that you can get the

588
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:02,600
frustration out with and I am someone

589
00:23:08,590 --> 00:23:05,450
who in terms of activism and they very

590
00:23:11,140 --> 00:23:08,600
in-your-face not worried about offending

591
00:23:14,290 --> 00:23:11,150
people and I found that people like me

592
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:14,300
do best when paired with someone who is

593
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:18,080
a far more conciliatory person and my

594
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:21,530
boss is that so when we are together you

595
00:23:25,090 --> 00:23:23,510
know we balance out

596
00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:25,100
it's the whole catch more flies with

597
00:23:28,990 --> 00:23:26,840
honey have you heard that good cop bad

598
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:29,000
cop good cop it's exactly what it is

599
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:31,450
good cut back up I'm the bad cop and

600
00:23:38,590 --> 00:23:35,330
never and you have to find someone that

601
00:23:40,690 --> 00:23:38,600
can balance that side of one person

602
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:40,700
yelling and screaming you know that this

603
00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:42,050
is wrong this is wrong and the other

604
00:23:46,570 --> 00:23:43,550
person saying well maybe you should try

605
00:23:47,950 --> 00:23:46,580
it this way and it reminded me of on the

606
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:47,960
panel the other day the difference

607
00:23:54,250 --> 00:23:51,410
between Jeff wag and the Daniel the

608
00:23:55,780 --> 00:23:54,260
atheists because he was like he says I'm

609
00:23:57,700 --> 00:23:55,790
not going to ever tell somebody there

610
00:23:59,260 --> 00:23:57,710
you know that it's okay for them to

611
00:24:01,120 --> 00:23:59,270
believe in God he's like it's wrong it's

612
00:24:04,330 --> 00:24:01,130
not true it's not real and that's

613
00:24:06,220 --> 00:24:04,340
definitely how I am whereas you have to

614
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:06,230
kind of pair sometimes I think we need

615
00:24:11,470 --> 00:24:08,570
both types of activism you definitely to

616
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:11,480
move forward you have to have both types

617
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:13,910
of activism there's also the situation

618
00:24:17,410 --> 00:24:15,290
where there are going to be people who

619
00:24:19,690 --> 00:24:17,420
are not atheists and yet they want to

620
00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:19,700
stand with you and promote skepticism

621
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:21,470
they could be the therapist down the

622
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:22,910
hallway who happens to be a committed

623
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:24,650
Christian and yet is standing up saying

624
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:26,210
I can't believe that this particular

625
00:24:30,190 --> 00:24:28,370
situation is happening I can't allow

626
00:24:32,410 --> 00:24:30,200
this therapy to go on where it's hurting

627
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:32,420
someone so those sorts of options I

628
00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:33,440
guess I open as well and that's

629
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:34,880
coalition-building I mean that's

630
00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:36,410
something within that you have to

631
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:39,710
realize that it's which is very similar

632
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:42,050
you know within liberalism in general

633
00:24:45,550 --> 00:24:43,490
the democratic party here in the united

634
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:45,560
states that you have people who have

635
00:24:50,050 --> 00:24:47,810
realized that they share enough in

636
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:50,060
common where if they want to achieve one

637
00:24:53,470 --> 00:24:51,770
goal they're all going to have to come

638
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:53,480
together for just this little piece and

639
00:24:58,900 --> 00:24:55,250
i'm thinking of things like the gay

640
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,910
rights groups minority groups unions you

641
00:25:03,310 --> 00:25:00,320
know they all come forward together to

642
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:03,320
elect President Obama whereas what's

643
00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:06,290
scary is if we were to get you know what

644
00:25:10,570 --> 00:25:07,910
was it pin said if you get the gun

645
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:10,580
people and the drug people together ya

646
00:25:14,350 --> 00:25:12,410
mean you don't want those people to get

647
00:25:16,690 --> 00:25:14,360
together but it's true that those people

648
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:16,700
never get together but if they did they

649
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:18,710
would be a very powerful voting so it's

650
00:25:24,259 --> 00:25:21,110
all about empowering finding networking

651
00:25:25,879 --> 00:25:24,269
opportunities talking to people

652
00:25:28,579 --> 00:25:25,889
and not being afraid you do not seem to

653
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:28,589
be someone who's frightened easily no I

654
00:25:33,019 --> 00:25:31,440
am NOT I'm not that's how I was raised I

655
00:25:35,570 --> 00:25:33,029
was raised like that my sister is an

656
00:25:37,820 --> 00:25:35,580
activist as well she works with drug

657
00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:37,830
addicts in the Ukraine and Russia and

658
00:25:42,499 --> 00:25:40,529
travels around in Europe teaching people

659
00:25:45,709 --> 00:25:42,509
how to work with IV drug users and

660
00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:45,719
alcoholics and in our family that's just

661
00:25:51,859 --> 00:25:48,289
what you do you we are loud we are

662
00:25:53,329 --> 00:25:51,869
defiant and we take it and work with

663
00:25:55,339 --> 00:25:53,339
people that we think needed and that

664
00:25:57,409 --> 00:25:55,349
ties again back into the importance of

665
00:26:00,469 --> 00:25:57,419
parenting doesn't it yes yes it does

666
00:26:02,299 --> 00:26:00,479
that I want my children to stand up for

667
00:26:04,399 --> 00:26:02,309
what they believe in but then sometimes

668
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:04,409
to you do have to realize that you

669
00:26:08,779 --> 00:26:07,200
everything is not a fight if people want

670
00:26:10,609 --> 00:26:08,789
to contact you and learn more about how

671
00:26:13,009 --> 00:26:10,619
to be a highly Anderson in their own

672
00:26:16,060 --> 00:26:13,019
community where could they go I would

673
00:26:19,849 --> 00:26:16,070
say they could go to my blog which is

674
00:26:21,109 --> 00:26:19,859
WWF at one in the middle julienne calm

675
00:26:22,879 --> 00:26:21,119
say that they get one more time just

676
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:22,889
because people might be going did I

677
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:26,070
really hear that gopis it's WWF at one

678
00:26:34,129 --> 00:26:31,289
in the middle com f Aton e th e mi ddle

679
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:34,139
calm and you heard it here first on the

680
00:26:39,619 --> 00:26:36,799
skeptic zone thank you so much Heidi

681
00:26:41,389 --> 00:26:39,629
again thank you very much those parents

682
00:26:42,919 --> 00:26:41,399
educators and interested skeptical

683
00:27:04,750 --> 00:26:42,929
community members who came to the

684
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:06,860
examining the truth in exposing the

685
00:27:11,210 --> 00:27:09,390
frauds bad psychics co uk is the website

686
00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:11,220
that critically examines mediums

687
00:27:15,170 --> 00:27:13,320
clairvoyants and psychics follow the

688
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:15,180
controversies news and discussions in

689
00:27:18,740 --> 00:27:17,250
the lively forum community and now you

690
00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:18,750
can download your weekly fix of

691
00:27:22,790 --> 00:27:20,460
righteous indignation the official

692
00:27:24,050 --> 00:27:22,800
podcast of bad psychics khodet UK that

693
00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:24,060
talks hard and critically about

694
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:26,820
paranormal bad psychics occurred at UK

695
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:28,550
the UK's largest and most respected

696
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:41,130
skeptical site looking at psychics now

697
00:27:49,550 --> 00:27:43,890
it's time for dr. Rachel reports with

698
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:49,560
dr. Rachel Dunlop hello everyone and

699
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:52,170
welcome to dr. Richie reports while

700
00:27:55,730 --> 00:27:53,910
Richard tells me that August was the

701
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:55,740
last time I submitted a doctor ranchi

702
00:28:00,320 --> 00:27:57,840
for the zone Wow it doesn't seem like it

703
00:28:02,140 --> 00:28:00,330
was that long ago this is partly because

704
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:02,150
I've been traveling around the u.s.

705
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:05,610
firstly to dragoncon and then up the

706
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:07,290
east coast of the United States to New

707
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:10,410
York City and Boston in New York City I

708
00:28:14,540 --> 00:28:12,690
was on a panel at the very first north

709
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:14,550
eastern conference on science and

710
00:28:21,290 --> 00:28:17,730
skepticism or Nexus discussing the role

711
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:21,300
of the media in science reporting stay

712
00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:22,890
tuned listeners for an interview with

713
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:24,780
one of my fellow participants John

714
00:28:29,050 --> 00:28:26,730
Rennie who is the recently retired

715
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:29,060
editor-in-chief of Scientific American

716
00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:31,650
this will be on the zone in the next few

717
00:28:37,220 --> 00:28:35,190
weeks Nexus was presented by the New

718
00:28:39,860 --> 00:28:37,230
England skeptical society and the New

719
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:39,870
York City skeptics and coincided with

720
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:41,850
the memorial parody Angeles live

721
00:28:46,340 --> 00:28:43,650
recording of the skeptics guide to the

722
00:28:49,340 --> 00:28:46,350
universe podcast the lineup was stellar

723
00:28:53,180 --> 00:28:49,350
and included of course SGU Richard

724
00:28:55,790 --> 00:28:53,190
Wiseman Paul Offit Carl Zimmer George

725
00:28:57,290 --> 00:28:55,800
her AB amongst others many of our

726
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:57,300
skeptical friends were also in the

727
00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:00,240
audience for Nexus including muy poo of

728
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:03,750
the famous smart acts website I spoke to

729
00:29:07,790 --> 00:29:05,490
a couple of people after the conference

730
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:07,800
had ended and here's a chat i had with

731
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:10,050
moo on stage before we

732
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:12,210
for a speaker's dinner about the role of

733
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:14,490
the media and scientists in reporting

734
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:16,650
science to the public i'm here with

735
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,410
mario and we've just finished the first

736
00:29:23,150 --> 00:29:20,960
nexus conference in new york city and

737
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:23,160
that was a great conference what did you

738
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,170
think yo it was awesome it was really

739
00:29:28,970 --> 00:29:27,360
great and people were standing I goes

740
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:28,980
over book completely because I was

741
00:29:34,580 --> 00:29:31,200
standing on the door you know asking to

742
00:29:36,980 --> 00:29:34,590
get in there nowhere him 400 people here

743
00:29:38,930 --> 00:29:36,990
and it was now people still trying to

744
00:29:41,540 --> 00:29:38,940
get in right yes yes yeah they were

745
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:41,550
selling tickets and that's in and people

746
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:42,930
were just turned away because they were

747
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:47,010
no more no more room yeah we had st you

748
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:49,890
during a live broadcast and we had talks

749
00:29:55,670 --> 00:29:53,610
from richard wiseman was a special guest

750
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:55,680
on SGU and we had Carl Zimmer doing a

751
00:29:59,300 --> 00:29:57,360
talk as the last twelve Paul of it

752
00:30:01,070 --> 00:29:59,310
started off the day talking about

753
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:01,080
vaccines not today what was the

754
00:30:05,030 --> 00:30:03,210
highlight for you move oh it was

755
00:30:07,460 --> 00:30:05,040
actually the kernel that you were in

756
00:30:09,050 --> 00:30:07,470
really you're just saying that no I'm

757
00:30:10,340 --> 00:30:09,060
not actually it was it was a great

758
00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:10,350
discussion I think it's a discussion

759
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:11,820
that's very important and I think that

760
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:13,710
sometimes we you know we need to talk

761
00:30:18,290 --> 00:30:15,570
about it more we need to you know the

762
00:30:19,550 --> 00:30:18,300
entire idea of communicating everything

763
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:19,560
and communicating it well not just

764
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:21,930
between us but you know to the public

765
00:30:27,020 --> 00:30:24,810
that it not necessarily is you know

766
00:30:29,450 --> 00:30:27,030
layman I don't like that word is that

767
00:30:31,730 --> 00:30:29,460
just you know doesn't care some

768
00:30:34,460 --> 00:30:31,740
something you need to do things in a way

769
00:30:37,010 --> 00:30:34,470
to entice the public and therefore the

770
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:37,020
media you know and I thought the battle

771
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:39,330
was awesome I was really the panel was

772
00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:41,490
about communicating science to the

773
00:30:45,889 --> 00:30:44,190
public and also to the media and how

774
00:30:48,919 --> 00:30:45,899
much tighter was representing this at a

775
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:48,929
journalist the media side of it and then

776
00:30:51,860 --> 00:30:50,490
there was myself John Schneider and John

777
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:51,870
Rainey was the moderator and he was

778
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:53,250
being an editor of Scientific American

779
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:56,399
for 15 years he's just retired like in

780
00:31:00,649 --> 00:30:59,279
June actually of july and you know there

781
00:31:02,090 --> 00:31:00,659
was some good discussion wasn't that you

782
00:31:03,740 --> 00:31:02,100
were gonna ask a question what was that

783
00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:03,750
going to be and you got cut off yeah I

784
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:07,260
was I was like three people before the

785
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,610
microphone and then they cut off because

786
00:31:12,740 --> 00:31:10,320
they didn't have enough time I was about

787
00:31:14,539 --> 00:31:12,750
to make the comment that I think it's

788
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:14,549
about a lot about responsibility you

789
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:17,090
started to touch on that but I think

790
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:19,770
when like in terms of journalists

791
00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:21,840
they're not just reporter reporters

792
00:31:25,130 --> 00:31:23,460
because the point was made that they

793
00:31:27,260 --> 00:31:25,140
need to give you know fairness they need

794
00:31:29,210 --> 00:31:27,270
to report all all sides but it's not

795
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:29,220
just about reporting it's about you know

796
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:31,049
conveying a message and I think a

797
00:31:34,580 --> 00:31:32,399
reporter needs to take into account that

798
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:34,590
because he's a no approaching or he has

799
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:36,809
a such a large audience there isn't a

800
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,450
issue here of responsibility but then

801
00:31:42,769 --> 00:31:41,039
again on the on the same s because of

802
00:31:44,269 --> 00:31:42,779
scientists need to understand that they

803
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:44,279
are appealing to the public and the

804
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:46,260
responsibility is to you know

805
00:31:50,029 --> 00:31:47,850
communicate to the public and they

806
00:31:50,590 --> 00:31:50,039
cannot stay inside their labs anymore

807
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:50,600
you know

808
00:31:58,960 --> 00:31:55,850
they have to figure a way to communicate

809
00:32:01,000 --> 00:31:58,970
that's well actually that discussion

810
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:01,010
continued in the green room after the

811
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:03,410
panel finished and myself and john

812
00:32:07,870 --> 00:32:04,880
schneider were having a bit of a go at

813
00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:07,880
harold and saying hang on because he's

814
00:32:12,580 --> 00:32:11,000
basically his point was it's up to the

815
00:32:14,350 --> 00:32:12,590
public to be educated enough to

816
00:32:17,169 --> 00:32:14,360
understand what was whether what we're

817
00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:17,179
saying is right and our point was to an

818
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:18,350
extent but you still have a

819
00:32:21,970 --> 00:32:20,690
responsibility to report things

820
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:21,980
accurately and correctly and

821
00:32:26,020 --> 00:32:23,510
particularly in the anti Baxter Bay

822
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:26,030
that's very important disparity the word

823
00:32:29,289 --> 00:32:27,710
autism and they you know that sticks in

824
00:32:31,299 --> 00:32:29,299
their head in it it's also a naive

825
00:32:32,890 --> 00:32:31,309
approach to get to to say like you know

826
00:32:34,299 --> 00:32:32,900
it's up to the public to to make up

827
00:32:35,409 --> 00:32:34,309
their minds the public will not make up

828
00:32:36,460 --> 00:32:35,419
their minds because it only goes don't

829
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:36,470
understand it's just like you know I

830
00:32:41,470 --> 00:32:38,720
don't understand in biology I have

831
00:32:43,330 --> 00:32:41,480
enough you know responsibility in myself

832
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:43,340
to go check out but if I hear someone I

833
00:32:47,950 --> 00:32:45,770
think it has Authority tell me something

834
00:32:48,909 --> 00:32:47,960
about biology I won't always check it

835
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:48,919
out there is some things you don't

836
00:32:53,380 --> 00:32:51,289
believe them okay whatever so the public

837
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:53,390
believes you know people in authority

838
00:32:58,860 --> 00:32:55,730
and to say that you know oh it's up to

839
00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:58,870
the public the chick is just naive yeah

840
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:02,240
it's been a really good day Mary great

841
00:33:06,130 --> 00:33:04,370
thanks for talking to us oh also it was

842
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:06,140
great thanks for coming here yeah no

843
00:33:12,430 --> 00:33:10,010
worries a really great day so we're

844
00:33:13,899 --> 00:33:12,440
still here after the first Nexus

845
00:33:15,909 --> 00:33:13,909
conference in new york city and i'm with

846
00:33:18,610 --> 00:33:15,919
tim fally from what's the harm done and

847
00:33:19,899 --> 00:33:18,620
hello Tim hi how are you good how are

848
00:33:21,580 --> 00:33:19,909
you did you enjoy the conference today

849
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:21,590
yeah it was great fun a lot of great

850
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:24,559
lectures good panels it was fun yeah

851
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:25,970
what was the highlight for you anything

852
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:28,880
in particular I think caring dr. Paul

853
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:31,010
offered speak early morning I've always

854
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:32,570
wanted to hear him speak and I've got

855
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,400
his book and he's just sent some great

856
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,320
work with vaccines and he gave a great

857
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:38,480
talk there's not a lot of funny stuff

858
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:40,070
and a lot of really important stuff in

859
00:33:43,539 --> 00:33:41,690
it yeah yeah his talk was really

860
00:33:44,830 --> 00:33:43,549
interesting wasn't it and especially

861
00:33:46,570 --> 00:33:44,840
there was a picture shine of Jenny

862
00:33:48,610 --> 00:33:46,580
McCarthy and Oprah and there was an

863
00:33:50,289 --> 00:33:48,620
audible boo across the audience wasn't

864
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:50,299
it right and then he asked the audience

865
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:53,090
who they were booing at was at Oprah or

866
00:33:57,279 --> 00:33:54,799
Jenny McCarthy and everybody pretty

867
00:33:59,490 --> 00:33:57,289
universally said both yeah boy yeah yeah

868
00:34:02,320 --> 00:33:59,500
and then there was a picture of andrew

869
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:02,330
wakefield and everyone was pretty

870
00:34:06,580 --> 00:34:04,010
unimpressed with that too I think yeah

871
00:34:08,470 --> 00:34:06,590
yeah in fact he's been a big part of the

872
00:34:10,510 --> 00:34:08,480
proceedings today Wakefield because of

873
00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:10,520
what he has done yeah Wakefield and the

874
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:12,350
whole anti backs movement figured

875
00:34:16,659 --> 00:34:14,210
prominently in all the panel discussions

876
00:34:18,849 --> 00:34:16,669
and because dr. off it was here yeah I'd

877
00:34:21,340 --> 00:34:18,859
say I you know you have to say if you're

878
00:34:23,260 --> 00:34:21,350
a skeptic anti-vaccine it's got to be

879
00:34:25,060 --> 00:34:23,270
your number one agenda item right now in

880
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:25,070
every country it's the biggest problem

881
00:34:31,899 --> 00:34:28,639
we face yeah I'm with Susan Becker some

882
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:31,909
of the season and Erin Murray hi Erin

883
00:34:35,409 --> 00:34:33,770
you guys enjoy the conference today I

884
00:34:37,450 --> 00:34:35,419
love that have been looking forward to

885
00:34:41,529 --> 00:34:37,460
it for four months ever since they

886
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:41,539
announced that was real excited to see

887
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:44,089
fall off its feet big fan of his I love

888
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:45,440
this book actually bought it for

889
00:34:50,559 --> 00:34:47,119
somebody and then stole the back room so

890
00:34:53,379 --> 00:34:50,569
I got really yeah and at a friend who

891
00:34:54,579 --> 00:34:53,389
was wanted to work with autistic kids so

892
00:34:57,730 --> 00:34:54,589
I actually bought it for her as a gift

893
00:35:00,940 --> 00:34:57,740
yeah yeah and obviously I was looking

894
00:35:03,279 --> 00:35:00,950
forward to meeting John Rennie longtime

895
00:35:04,779 --> 00:35:03,289
subscriber to Scientific American but

896
00:35:06,970 --> 00:35:04,789
that was great i first heard about it a

897
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:06,980
few months ago on the SGU podcast and

898
00:35:10,779 --> 00:35:08,960
it's my first skeptical part of my

899
00:35:13,059 --> 00:35:10,789
friend for skeptical conference oh

900
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:13,069
really very exciting really enjoyed it I

901
00:35:16,539 --> 00:35:14,510
have a lot of books to add to my reading

902
00:35:20,799 --> 00:35:16,549
list and book in particular I think it's

903
00:35:23,799 --> 00:35:20,809
called 59 seconds oh that book do you

904
00:35:25,930 --> 00:35:23,809
remember that for 59 seconds it sounds

905
00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:25,940
familiar about oh yeah I heard it comes

906
00:35:30,130 --> 00:35:28,430
out in January to you does it yeah

907
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:30,140
that's like a rumor about that yeah I

908
00:35:34,809 --> 00:35:32,690
heard it comes out in America in January

909
00:35:37,420 --> 00:35:34,819
well what everyone's talking about here

910
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:37,430
is Richard Wiseman's new book 59 seconds

911
00:35:41,380 --> 00:35:39,410
he was promoting that quite heavily

912
00:35:44,049 --> 00:35:41,390
wasn't he too i think he managed to work

913
00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:44,059
a plug in approximately eleven hundred

914
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:47,270
times yeah it was it was quite good and

915
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:48,890
then by the end of the day he even had

916
00:35:53,710 --> 00:35:51,049
the moderators plugging it for him yeah

917
00:35:55,539 --> 00:35:53,720
add some people from the audience to a

918
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:55,549
guy who got up and ask a question also

919
00:36:00,609 --> 00:35:58,400
quite this book so this is the first

920
00:36:03,069 --> 00:36:00,619
nexus and probably not the last I

921
00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:03,079
wouldn't think I hope so yeah so we

922
00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:04,480
might see you next year Oh

923
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:06,790
that night so the following day in New

924
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:09,130
York City I headed downtown to meet with

925
00:36:13,170 --> 00:36:10,690
some fellow skeptics for a brunch

926
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:13,180
rebecca watson was in attendance so i

927
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:15,250
took the opportunity to ask her how she

928
00:36:22,140 --> 00:36:19,119
thought the nexus conference went this

929
00:36:23,849 --> 00:36:22,150
is this is basically the continuation of

930
00:36:25,590 --> 00:36:23,859
the library skeptics guide of the

931
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:25,600
universe podcast we've been doing every

932
00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:28,450
year and this was by far the best year

933
00:36:34,740 --> 00:36:31,980
ever sorry you guys couldn't make it

934
00:36:36,750 --> 00:36:34,750
it's never gonna be this good again you

935
00:36:41,690 --> 00:36:36,760
missed a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity

936
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:45,990
but no it was so great because I thought

937
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:48,640
that all the speakers were spot on there

938
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:51,010
was an interesting discussion there were

939
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:53,050
points brought up at even I universally

940
00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:55,210
considered before that made me think

941
00:37:00,420 --> 00:36:57,520
harder about my position on things and

942
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:00,430
that to me is a successful conference is

943
00:37:04,890 --> 00:37:02,050
something that allows you to generate

944
00:37:08,849 --> 00:37:04,900
new ideas and leave people energized to

945
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:08,859
go out and using more skepta see ya yeah

946
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:11,170
i think so i thought the little Bacon's

947
00:37:16,780 --> 00:37:13,450
understanded was so high it was just as

948
00:37:19,370 --> 00:37:16,790
we had pull open to a talk to start off

949
00:37:20,990 --> 00:37:19,380
and then we finished up with pal CMO he

950
00:37:22,819 --> 00:37:21,000
was also a fantastic and they went in

951
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:22,829
between me and Richard Wiseman and you

952
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:25,710
guys did the live show with top quality

953
00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:29,250
stuff really great I thought that Carl

954
00:37:34,039 --> 00:37:30,780
Zimmer and Paul Offit were the perfect

955
00:37:36,730 --> 00:37:34,049
book is they are both these amazingly

956
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:36,740
intelligent and compassionate and

957
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:40,410
passionate people who really energized

958
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:42,930
the audience and even when they're

959
00:37:47,390 --> 00:37:44,490
saying things that the audience already

960
00:37:50,539 --> 00:37:47,400
knows the audience clearly loves it and

961
00:37:54,370 --> 00:37:50,549
so I I adored every second of them and

962
00:37:57,140 --> 00:37:54,380
i'm so glad i got something out yes

963
00:38:00,170 --> 00:37:57,150
wasn't it yeah it was we sold out all

964
00:38:02,839 --> 00:38:00,180
400 seats so now we're looking at next

965
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:02,849
year and I should mention that the New

966
00:38:06,890 --> 00:38:04,410
York City skeptics and in particular

967
00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:06,900
Mike Feldman is basically the skeptics

968
00:38:10,609 --> 00:38:08,280
guide teaming with the nearest a

969
00:38:14,770 --> 00:38:10,619
skeptics but Mike meldman who runs near

970
00:38:18,049 --> 00:38:14,780
city skeptics did so much work and it

971
00:38:20,930 --> 00:38:18,059
went off flawlessly everything was was

972
00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:20,940
so wonderfully done and so next year I'm

973
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:22,440
really hoping that we can come together

974
00:38:27,260 --> 00:38:24,569
and do it again and make it even bigger

975
00:38:29,150 --> 00:38:27,270
and maybe go we're looking at options

976
00:38:31,549 --> 00:38:29,160
like go into two days

977
00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:31,559
maybe you sweating out to other other

978
00:38:37,130 --> 00:38:34,470
buildings we just want to make it bigger

979
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:37,140
and better and then it was the previous

980
00:38:41,660 --> 00:38:38,250
year which is going to be difficult

981
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:41,670
because it was so cool yeah you guys did

982
00:38:48,020 --> 00:38:43,770
miss out it was amazing day yesterday

983
00:38:51,049 --> 00:38:48,030
I'll be crying myself until next year's

984
00:38:53,029 --> 00:38:51,059
conference I that's good to know so

985
00:38:56,539 --> 00:38:53,039
folks as you can gather Nexus was an

986
00:38:58,549 --> 00:38:56,549
overwhelming success so make sure you

987
00:39:03,500 --> 00:38:58,559
mark Nexus down in your calendar for

988
00:39:05,660 --> 00:39:03,510
must-see skeptical conferences so after

989
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:05,670
the great fun of Nexus in New York City

990
00:39:11,779 --> 00:39:08,640
I took a bus up to Boston to do a talk

991
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:11,789
for Boston skeptics in the pub a big

992
00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:14,160
thank you to rebecca watson liz and

993
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:16,049
maggie for helping to organize this

994
00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:17,730
event and of course to maggie for

995
00:39:23,059 --> 00:39:21,030
filming the event the video of my talk

996
00:39:25,279 --> 00:39:23,069
is now available online at Boston

997
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:25,289
skeptics com so if you want to see me

998
00:39:30,170 --> 00:39:27,510
rant and rave about alternative medicine

999
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:30,180
and anti-vaxxers head to Boston skeptics

1000
00:39:35,809 --> 00:39:33,270
to watch the video and until next time

1001
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:35,819
and until my next trip overseas in a

1002
00:39:50,180 --> 00:39:47,510
this is brian dunning from the sceptile

1003
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:50,190
podcast been enjoying your critical

1004
00:39:56,990 --> 00:39:54,570
thinking shows in audio only you've been

1005
00:40:02,030 --> 00:39:57,000
missing half the fun check out my new

1006
00:40:06,650 --> 00:40:02,040
video podcast in fact on itunes or click

1007
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:06,660
it on skep tied com3 pilot episodes of

1008
00:40:11,690 --> 00:40:09,240
in fact are available now for immediate

1009
00:40:14,030 --> 00:40:11,700
viewing I'm looking for sponsorship to

1010
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:14,040
produce an entire first season of 13

1011
00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:16,890
episodes and hopefully many more seasons

1012
00:40:21,230 --> 00:40:19,110
to follow you can see the whole lineup

1013
00:40:24,350 --> 00:40:21,240
and get all the other nuts and bolts if

1014
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:24,360
you go to sceptile calm and click on in

1015
00:40:29,420 --> 00:40:27,630
fact and don't forget to come back to

1016
00:40:33,460 --> 00:40:29,430
the skeptic zone when you're done

1017
00:40:36,260 --> 00:40:33,470
watching I I think it's audio only but

1018
00:40:49,210 --> 00:40:36,270
that's okay I still like it this is

1019
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:51,349
welcome to the token skeptic quick

1020
00:40:55,940 --> 00:40:53,280
roundup of blog sites podcasts and

1021
00:40:57,620 --> 00:40:55,950
conferences coming up firstly skeptic

1022
00:40:59,930 --> 00:40:57,630
North is the first blog to have a truly

1023
00:41:01,730 --> 00:40:59,940
paying Canadians cope they have a great

1024
00:41:03,559 --> 00:41:01,740
team of Canadian skeptic authors from

1025
00:41:05,539 --> 00:41:03,569
across the country and from a wide range

1026
00:41:08,030 --> 00:41:05,549
of backgrounds both academic and

1027
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:08,040
professional their site is skeptic

1028
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:10,049
NORTHCOM and you should check out the

1029
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:11,760
blog interview with junior skeptics

1030
00:41:17,299 --> 00:41:14,130
Daniel Loxton by skeptically speaking

1031
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:17,309
host desirae shell skeptic zone is a big

1032
00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:20,400
supporter of the PASOK award-winning 365

1033
00:41:25,370 --> 00:41:23,190
days of astronomy podcast our reports

1034
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:25,380
include may the 14th with Tiffany day

1035
00:41:30,109 --> 00:41:27,900
myself Carly Sturgis on July the first

1036
00:41:34,730 --> 00:41:30,119
and now Richard Saunders has contributed

1037
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:34,740
in episode 4 sep tember the 23rd the 365

1038
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:36,510
days of astronomy podcasts hope to

1039
00:41:42,530 --> 00:41:39,450
continue the show into 2010 head to

1040
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,540
their site at 365 days of astronomy org

1041
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:44,400
for more news about donating and

1042
00:41:49,130 --> 00:41:46,890
contributing further contact right now

1043
00:41:51,650 --> 00:41:49,140
Tom London is happening and rise of

1044
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:51,660
atheism is on the horizon the global

1045
00:41:56,690 --> 00:41:53,490
convention is held in melbourne from the

1046
00:41:58,549 --> 00:41:56,700
12 to the 14th of march 2010 and tickets

1047
00:42:01,160 --> 00:41:58,559
are now selling at atheist convention

1048
00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:01,170
org a youth it will feature Richard

1049
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:03,510
Dawkins peas admirers Robin Williams

1050
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:06,210
Phillip Adams and many others the

1051
00:42:10,370 --> 00:42:07,770
Australian skeptics National Convention

1052
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:10,380
is happening even sooner in Brisbane at

1053
00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:11,970
the University of Queensland from

1054
00:42:18,380 --> 00:42:15,569
November the 27 to the 29 the Australian

1055
00:42:21,980 --> 00:42:18,390
skeptics website at skeptics Comte you

1056
00:42:23,569 --> 00:42:21,990
features further details the New York

1057
00:42:26,059 --> 00:42:23,579
skeptics who just held the Nexus

1058
00:42:28,549 --> 00:42:26,069
conference where dr. HC presented now

1059
00:42:31,490 --> 00:42:28,559
has a blog to the Gotham skeptics blog

1060
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:31,500
is found at NYC skeptics toddle ford /

1061
00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:33,839
vlog and anyone around the world can be

1062
00:42:38,329 --> 00:42:35,400
a supporter of the New York City

1063
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:38,339
skeptics finally grassroots skeptics at

1064
00:42:43,039 --> 00:42:40,710
ohio skeptic calm forward slash

1065
00:42:44,569 --> 00:42:43,049
grassroots skeptics they're all about

1066
00:42:46,819 --> 00:42:44,579
activism and then looking for

1067
00:43:09,010 --> 00:42:46,829
contributing writers sign up the news

1068
00:43:13,220 --> 00:43:11,450
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1069
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:13,230
zone i think we had more guest

1070
00:43:17,630 --> 00:43:14,850
interviews than ever before on this

1071
00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:17,640
episode so until next week this is

1072
00:43:25,580 --> 00:43:20,310
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1073
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:25,590
Australia you've been listening to the

1074
00:43:33,110 --> 00:43:29,310
skeptic zone visit our website at www

1075
00:43:36,349 --> 00:43:33,120
skeptics on TV for comments contacts and

1076
00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:36,359
extra video reports